Elystan Morgan on the Creation of a Reserved Powers Constitution for Wales

The creation of 200 reserved powers ‘mere trivia matters that are clearly domestic in their nature …is to my mind an insult to the people of Wales’

‘How did this come about? ……. It came from a long history of prejudice that has formed what you might describe as a permafrost of attitude towards Welsh devolution.’

‘I believe that it has a lot to do with the fact that Wales was England’s first colony …We have not broken through that mould’

Said to Elystan at one time - ‘You could be a very nice chap if you did not tilt at the English so often’

Elystan’s response - ‘I conceive nationalism in the context of Wales as being a patriotism that knows not hatred of any other nation. That is what Welsh nationhood and Welsh nationalism at their very best should be and are.’

Elystan Morgan’s second amendment was in relation of a reserved powers constitution for Wales. Where he asked the Secretary of State to establish a working party to report to Parliament within three years on the question of how the reserved powers are operating in each case.

Here are extracts from his speech:

‘Normally I would jump with joy at this development because it places Wales upon the same constitutional basis as Scotland and Northern Ireland. It also tidies up a great deal of what is now in a state of confusion and, if I may describe it, confetti.

When you deal with a long period of transferring small powers, day in day out, coming from hundreds of different sources, you create a situation that almost guarantees some constitutional neurosis on the part of many generations of Welsh lawyers.

Avoiding that would be utterly worthwhile.

However I am far from happy with the situation I believe the (Wales Bill) is deeply flawed and a blue print for failure and disaster. The fact that there are about 200 reservations and the very nature of the reservations themselves makes the matter a nonesense.

Many of them are trivia and their inclusion is to my mind an insult to the people of Wales.

When you have a settlement, such as the one we are now seeking in relation to Wales, there has to be some mutual trust and some sense of balance. ….. If the current Parliament refuses to accept that, the whole moral geometry of the situation is affected.

How did this come about? ……. It came from a long history of prejudice that has formed what you might describe as a permafrost of attitude towards Welsh devolution.

I do not believe that the situation  was anything different from this:

The Secretary of State for Wales, perhaps deferentially, went to various colleagues and said 

‘What would you like reserved, my dear chap, from your department?’

Each one said, in his mind and his heart if not in actual words

‘Practically everything. It does not matter how meagre, niggardly, small or utterly local it might be, we will reserve it if we possibly can’

I believe that it has a lot to do with the fact that Wales was England’s first colony …. We have not yet broken the mould.

When you think that some of these reservations – there are dozens which, to my mind, are utterly ludicrous – can you imagine the Colonial Office of the United Kingdom 60 years ago, particularly when Jim Griffiths was head of that department, going to a British Caribbean of African colony and saying

‘These are the reservations I demand of you?’

It simply could not happen'.

Lord Dafydd Wigley, Lord Murphy of Torfaen and Lord Howarth of Newport spoke in favour of the amendment.

We’ll have to wait how the Government responds in the coming weeks.

Will be interesting.

However read Elystan’s contribution at the end of the debate on Dominion Status and  Reserved Powers

‘On the question of of dominion status, I was tempted to make the mischievous point that for many centuries Wales was a dominion in law.  The actual wording of the Act of Union 1536 refers to the

‘dominion, principality and country of Wales’

Some years ago, a good friend said to me 

‘You could be a very nice chap if you did not tilt at the English so often’

I am not sure what ‘a nice chap‘ was intended to mean in that context, or whether I would ever qualify within the definition. However as far as the second part of his proposition was concerned I have never tilted at the English.

I conceive nationalism in the context of Wales as being a patriotism that knows not hatred of any other nation. That is what Welsh nationhood and Welsh nationalism at their very best should be and are’. 

‘My appeal is when we are thinking of the future of Wales is to think big. If you think big you will achieve something worthwhile'

‘Dominion Status is not about a rigid pattern of government. The principle is enunciated in the Statute of Westminster 1931 and has developed politically over 85 years thereafter’. (Elystan Morgan).

‘What should be the degree of self-government and pattern of constitutional development in the new circumstances that are unfolding in Wales’? (Dafydd Wigley).

Reading the debate in the House of Lords where the two elevated the debate from the uninspiring content of the Wales Bill reminded me of a similar happening during the passage of the Local Government Reorganisation Act in the early 1970s. Then it was about making the case for an Elected Council for Wales!

Lord Elystan Morgan moved an amendment to the Wales Bill in the House of Lords on November 7 2016 along the following lines.–

The Secretary of State for Wales shall, within the period of three years following the principal appointed day referred to in section 55(3) establish a working group to study the possibilities for Wales, as a land and nation, of constitutional development within the terms of and consistent with the principles of the Statute of Westminster 1931, and developments thereafter and shall within the said period of three years present a report of its study to Parliament with such recommendations as it deems appropriate.

Extracts from his speech include:

‘My appeal is when we are thinking of the future of Wales is to think big. If you think big you will achieve something worthwhile; if you think small, what you will achieve will be small, or even perhaps smaller than that you have set out to obtain. That is the situation that confronts us now.

Dominion Status is not about a rigid pattern of government. The principle is enunciated in the Statute of Westminster 1931 and has developed politically over 85 years thereafter. Obviously when one is speaking one is not speaking in any way of the constitutional one is not speaking of a replica of the constitutional situation of New Zealand or Australia. of Dominion Status in the context of Wales.

It is an open secret that about 10 years ago the Governments of the UK and that of Spain almost came to an understanding – this is hardly believable – about the future of Gibraltar with a plan for some form of Dominion Status.

In other words the concept is so flexible, so malleable and so adaptable that it was possible for the ancient conflicts there to come very near to a friendly settlement.

There are endless plans and changes that can be considered. 

Who knows what the situation will be in five to 10 years’ time? It is a situation of total flux and it is therefore incumbent upon us all to consider exactly what this possibility should be, side by side with many other possibilities’.

Lord Dafydd Wigley supported the amendment and said:

‘The recent referendum means that the UK will now, most regrettably, leave the European Union – though goodness knows what new relationship we shall have with our European neighbours, including the Irish Republic.

In these circumstances we must all look again at what should be the appropriate place for Wales in the brave new world towards which we are, for better of worse, heading.

I also suggest that it is also time for the London – centric political parties to start thinking in these terms too.

What should be the degree of self-government and pattern of constitutional development in the new circumstances that are unfolding in Wales’?

He highlighted three guiding principles:

The people of Wales should have the right to determine the degree of independence towards which they aspire and what is appropriate to their developing circumstances.

Any constitutional settlement between the nations of these islands should recognise the practical reality that we must have open borders between all five nations.

Wales should be empowered to take every decision that can be meaningfully be taken in Wales by our own Government in our own National Assembly, to the extent that the people of Wales so wish.

I will soon be posting references to reports and papers by serious academic and political sources which have recently been published in relation to the case for a Federal UK, an English Parliament and regional assemblies in England. No doubt things will change over the coming decade. As Elystan said 'think big you may achieve something worthwhile'  

The family in the early years of Gwynoro’s life story as mentioned in videos 1-7 

I thought it would be a good idea to give ‘faces to names’ of the people who were central to my early years and upbringing till the mid 1950s.

So much I owe to them all

My parents – probably mid 1940’s. I have difficulty recalling them looking like this! But do remember my father with little hair though! he lost it all in a matter of weeks.

With my father when 3 years old and then the other photo slightly older – early school days!

My mother’s parents – Rhys Jones (known as Rhys y Castle ) Elizabeth Mary ( known as Bess). My grandfather hailed from a little small holding known as 'The Castle' and my grandmother from a farm in Foelgastell called 'Penyfoel'. Remember going to the two places a lot

 

With my Grandfather when some 4 years old – soon after he had an accident in Blaenhirwaun Colliery - led eventually to him becoming  paralysed around 1951/2. The remainder of the 1950s helped my mother a lot looking after him since he was in a wheelchair and totally immobile 

 

Trefor –my Mother’s brother, pictured around 1951 when at Aberystwyth studying for the Ministry. I treated him as a brother in effect. He was very good to me taking me to sporting events - rugby, cricket and even Commonwealth Games in Cardiff. He played rugby for Cefneithin and was known as a hard player.

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My father’s parents

John Jones and Rachel Ann. Would go to Cwmmawr a lot in the late 1940's and 50s usually on a Saturday evening or Sunday for tea. It was a place full of life, laughter and noise. My grandfather's family hailed from Llanarthney way and my grandmother Cross Hands I believe

My grandfather with some of his Eisteddfod trophies – his Eisteddfodic name was ‘Cymro’. Well known throughout South Wales. The whole family were very musical in fact. If he came back from an eisteddfod having lost - he was not happy at all and of course it was the judges’ fault! 

The Cwmmawr clan! Sadly only one left now – Claudia in the front row (middle).

Very good company and there were two personality types. Four in the front row were more reserved and quieter than the rest. The two brothers (back row) exceptionally noisy as was their sister standing between them. All were good singers, musical and performers.

My home – Manyrafon ( this is a model) presented to me at sometime in the 80s on my birthday and the the chapel Peniel.

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Lord Elystan Morgan has put down two amendments to the Wales Bill to be debated Monday Nov 7

Calling for two working parties to be established to report to Parliament within 3 years on –

The operation of the minor Reserved Powers

and

Dominion Status for Wales

Reserved Powers

Lord Elystan Morgan states:

‘The Government’s plan for a Reserved Powers Constitution for Wales is fundamentally flawed.

Whilst a Reserve Powers system placing Wales on a par with Scotland and Northern Ireland is both just and welcomed the way in which the Government have proceeded is little short of ludicrous in that they have introduced some 200 reservations with scores of them being utterly trivial and meagre (e.g. licensing, dangerous dogs, prostitution, charitable collections etc ).

A Reserve Powers system in an enlightened society depends entirely upon mutual trust and respect existing between the parent Parliament and the devolved body.

It appears however that when the question was asked by the Secretary of State for Wales of his cabinet colleagues -

‘what reservations would you desire’?

 the answer that he seems to have received seems like -

‘all that we can possibly think of – the more mean and trivial the better’.

It is for that reason I have described the situation as imperial and colonial and that such tawdry inhibitions would never have been thought of 60 years ago by a Colonial Office dealing with a British Caribbean or African colony.

But remember always that Wales was England’s first colony and a determination exists in certain circles that it should be its last.

The amendment to the Wales Bill that I have drafted is to the effect that the Secretary of State for Wales should establish a working party that would report to Parliament within 3 years on the operation of the minor Reserve Powers with recommendations that those which are irrelevant (particularly breaking the principles of subsidiarity) and thus insulting to Wales should be removed’

Dominion Status

Lord Elystan Morgan has put down an amendment to the Wales Bill obliging the Secretary of State for Wales to establish a working party on the issue of the possibilities of Dominion Status for Wales as a land and nation and to report to Parliament within 3 years.

‘My motivation for this is that we the Welsh people should think big

For far too long we have begged for the crumbs of devolution so it is highly necessary that we should raise our expectations to be worthy of our status as a mature national entity.

The Statute of Westminster 1931 did not create a rigid model of Dominion Status but rather enunciated a principle of immense flexibility and subtleness

It stands to reason that Dominion Status in relation to Wales would be very different from the patterns existing for Australia and New Zealand, but it is a worthy and honourable concept that can enable Wales to play its full part within the life of the UK.’

Gwynoro’s life story video 7 – more recollections of life in early/mid 1950’s.

The influence of chapel life on his upbringing.

Early political awareness 

The attitude of chapel people towards Sunday papers ( Daily Herald and The People ) and watching TV on a Sunday.

Describes how as a young boy he like others in Peniel had to learn verbatim sections from the Bible along with from a question and answer booklet called 'Y Rhodd Mam'.

Refers to some chapel people that influenced his upbringing and how the Sunday School helped to develop his memory recall and debating skills.

He mentions one person in particular - Thomas John Davies – and how his oratorical skill owe a lot to that person.

Refers to the time when he failed the 11+ in 1954 and that he had to re-sit the test.

Also early recollections of the Korean War and Suez crisis and the start of his political awareness,